Ikkunamaali - himmeä, puoli vai kiiltävä?

Maalaus ja varsinkin maalit jakavat mielipiteitä ja ansaitsevat oman osion
Vastaa Viestiin
Avatar
omenatalo
Uusi jäsen
Viestit: 7
Liittynyt: La Elo 18, 2012 8:49
Paikkakunta: Espoo

Ikkunamaali - himmeä, puoli vai kiiltävä?

Viesti Kirjoittaja omenatalo »

Hello Finnish house friends. With the help(?) of Google Translate I've been a long time lurker round here and have gotten lots of great tips and advice. Now it's time to ask a question of my own - first post!

Thanks for understanding if I write in English. I am trying to learn your wonderful language, but it's not going well. Maybe in a few years I will be able to post in Finnish, but if I did that now the grammar police would have a field day. :-)

So, as you might guess I hail from the UK where all exterior woodwork is traditional treated with high gloss paint. Whether because of climate or tradition, things seem to be done differently here in Finland. The windows of my lovely omenatalo need care and attention this summer and I could do with advice from the natives. For background, my rintamamiestalo was built around 1950-51and is painted in a light yellow with white wooden detailing.

I get that the wide decorative boards surrounding the windows are finished in matt, but what about the exterior window frames themselves? What kind of paint finish is traditionally used there?
tieva
Jäsen
Jäsen
Viestit: 54
Liittynyt: La Helmi 13, 2010 11:32
Paikkakunta: Hämeenlinna

Re: Ikkunamaali - himmeä, puoli vai kiiltävä?

Viesti Kirjoittaja tieva »

Hi, welcome to the forum and good luck with your project!

Traditional linseed oil paint ("pellavaöljymaali") had been used for both facades and window frames as well as doors and even sheet metal roofs (not to mention interior surfaces like ceilings and panelings). You can buy it ready-made (manufacturers are e.g. Finnish Uula or Swedish Allbäck and Ottoson), or make it yourself with a traditional recipe. If you buy it canned it's good to know not everything sold under the name of oil paint ("öljymaali") is the traditional stuff.

Real linseed oil paint is glossy when the surface is brand new, but it wears off over time turning matt in a few years time. Uula's and Allbäck's factory-made linseed oil paints are not fully glossy because they contain something additional that makes them only half matt or half glossy. However, they are the closest to traditional that you can find in a tin.

If you're choosing a paint for windows, be sure not to mix linseed oil paint ("pellavaöljymaali") with petroleum oil paint ("petrooliöljymaali"). For example Uula makes both. Petroleum oil paint is matt right in the beginning, and it's not recommended for windows - if I remember correctly it's too soft to be used there. Petroleum is only mixed to linseed oil paint to make it cheaper and "easier" to paint (painting with it resembles more painting with modern paints, unlike painting with linseed oil paint).

I guess you do know that you need to remove at least any paint that's chipping off. Some say you can't paint over modern paints (latex or alkyd) with linseed oil paint, but the manufacturer Uula claims you can. I haven't tried it myself. I hope this helps you with your project!

tieva
Avatar
omenatalo
Uusi jäsen
Viestit: 7
Liittynyt: La Elo 18, 2012 8:49
Paikkakunta: Espoo

Re: Ikkunamaali - himmeä, puoli vai kiiltävä?

Viesti Kirjoittaja omenatalo »

Thanks for your reply. I'd seen Uula paint in the shop and always wondered what made it special. It's interesting that the same paint was used for facades as well as the detailing. I'm not sure I can imagine the house walls in gloss - it would make it the shiniest house in the area!

Is there a simple way to know what paint was previously used on my windows and woodwork? I've owned the house for four years but I think it was repainted within the last decade.

If I use linseed oil paint, how long might I expect it to last before the next maintenance painting?

You mentioned that linseed oil paint behaves differently to modern paints. Are there any special techniques or brushes required?

Out of curiosity, are there disadvantages to using a water-based paint intended for exterior wood - something like Pika-Teho - or is it just a case of choosing between traditional or modern approaches?
Avatar
PetteriKivimäki
Jäsen
Jäsen
Viestit: 2045
Liittynyt: To Touko 17, 2007 11:32
Paikkakunta: Jyväskylä

Re: Ikkunamaali - himmeä, puoli vai kiiltävä?

Viesti Kirjoittaja PetteriKivimäki »

To start with: Ottoson is a swedish company which makes excellent paints, and they have a good page in english
http://www.ottossonfarg.com/default_eng.aspx

Just to mention few things: linceed oil paint has to be painted with several thin layers with tight brush. Otherwise You get too thick coat of paint and You find yourself in trouble. And the other thing is that the paint shows more than hides, so careful work with the surface You`re working with.
Kuva
Kuva
Jumalauta, saunan takana on tilaa!
Ensi kesänä teen sinne kasvimaan.
Laurakaisa
Jäsen
Jäsen
Viestit: 1241
Liittynyt: Ma Huhti 05, 2010 21:28
Paikkakunta: Mikkeli
Kotisivu: http://laurakaisatalo.blogspot.com

Re: Ikkunamaali - himmeä, puoli vai kiiltävä?

Viesti Kirjoittaja Laurakaisa »

Hi and welcome to the forum!

We are in the middle of a window fixing project at the moment, luckily enough we could hire a traditionally oriented carpenter to do most of the job. (Two small kids, one felt roof already made by ourselves this summer => total exhaustion...) Our guy uses Uula's paints and his choice was linseed oil paint for the exterior frames and Uuula's Ovi-ja ikkunamaali (Door and window paint) for the "doubles" ("tuplat") as the inside frames are usually called. You shouldn't use Ovi- ja ikkunamaali for the exterior ones since it is not suitable for exterior painting, but it dries about ten times faster than the real linseed oil paint, so it's much easier and faster to paint the inside frames with it. There are other manufacturers of the traditional paints as well as Petteri mentioned, Uula is just one example - but they have translated their website in English as well, http://www.uula.fi/en/.

I wouldn't use any modern, water-based paints - they make thick plastic cover on top of the wood, which can cause trouble especially on the walls: paint eventually starts to flake in big pieces and looks really ugly, and in the worst case the wrong kind of paint can destroy the original panels or window frames because the plastic layer prevents the wood from "breathig", e.g. absorbing and emitting moisture. You can pretty easily see the difference between oil paint and water-based paint: traditional oil paint looks like a crocodile skin when it gets older and if you scratch a bit of the paint and bend it, it cracs in small, sharp pieces. A piece of water-based paint, however, feels and looks like a piece of a thick plastic bag, I would say... Linseed oil paint is glossy when the surface is newly painted but it looses its gloss over time.

With linseed oil paint you must paint very thin layers and actually almost rub the paint on the surface, as Petteri said. And it really takes a long time to dry!

By the way, if you use white paint for the frames, as I understood, it can be tricky to find the right shade of white. Plain white without any shading can look weird . We did it the easy way - the carpenter told us that he has some amount of white paint left from his previous window project and we decided to use that :-D It was a good choice anyway and looks nice, if I remember right the shade was named Pouta.
"Saavat tehdä tämän päivän talot juuri niin kuin haluavat, mutta minun talo on tehty kuusikymmentä vuotta sitten ja semmonen aika näkyy talossa ja ihmisessä. Kiitos mutta ei kiitos." - Tuomas Kyrö: Mielensäpahoittaja
Avatar
omenatalo
Uusi jäsen
Viestit: 7
Liittynyt: La Elo 18, 2012 8:49
Paikkakunta: Espoo

Re: Ikkunamaali - himmeä, puoli vai kiiltävä?

Viesti Kirjoittaja omenatalo »

Thank you both so much for your answers, advice and the links. This is opening up a whole new world for me and I like it! Wooden houses are not so common in the UK and I have a lot to learn about the traditional ways of looking after my rintamamiestalo. The Ottoson site is very helpful and I love the pictures and examples in their catalogue. The Uula site, too, has good information. I noticed I could have answered most of my questions myself using those sites, so thanks again for taking the time to reply here.

Laurakaisa - I have two small kids too so I know what you are talking about. It is total exhaustion, but totally worth it too. :-)

Painting thin coats should be fine. I find I tend to paint that way even with modern paints. One more question though - now that summer is drawing to a close what happens if it rains during the paint's long drying time? Can it survive or will it ruin the finish?
Avatar
PetteriKivimäki
Jäsen
Jäsen
Viestit: 2045
Liittynyt: To Touko 17, 2007 11:32
Paikkakunta: Jyväskylä

Re: Ikkunamaali - himmeä, puoli vai kiiltävä?

Viesti Kirjoittaja PetteriKivimäki »

There`s a messy word in finnish called öljymaali which - depending on who`s speaking - may can mean the linceed oil paint or the alkyd strenghtened pine-oil or something other based alkyd oil paint. For example finnish company Tikkurila has a window oil paint http://www.tikkurila.fi/kotimaalarit/tu ... .363.shtml which is alkyd paint.

Painting with alkyd gives a hard surfaced coat. Harder than the surface, and that`s the very common problem seen often: too thick layer of alkyd coat cracks as time goes by (or then the grounding has been neglected), the moist gets under the coat and finally the coat cracks away as large "chips".

But I use alkyd coat on doors because it makes the scratch-resistant coat, lets see if I have had the skill of grounging & painting enought thin!
Jumalauta, saunan takana on tilaa!
Ensi kesänä teen sinne kasvimaan.
Kuvaja
Jäsen
Jäsen
Viestit: 696
Liittynyt: To Syys 09, 2010 21:27
Paikkakunta: Mäntsälä/Kemijärvi

Re: Ikkunamaali - himmeä, puoli vai kiiltävä?

Viesti Kirjoittaja Kuvaja »

It`s a good thing you have the patience to paint with thin layers. I`we seen windows painted with thik layer of linceed oil. After a one year time, paint peeled of like a rubbey strip. So patience...
Laurakaisa
Jäsen
Jäsen
Viestit: 1241
Liittynyt: Ma Huhti 05, 2010 21:28
Paikkakunta: Mikkeli
Kotisivu: http://laurakaisatalo.blogspot.com

Re: Ikkunamaali - himmeä, puoli vai kiiltävä?

Viesti Kirjoittaja Laurakaisa »

It is still ok to paint during daytime, but rain is not good so you should check the weather forecast and try to make sure it won't rain 1-3 days after painting. I should paint our renovated front door before the winter comes and I'm going to do it tomorrow, because it shouldn't rain before Thursday. Of course you never know 100% sure... That's why spring, especially May, is really the best month to do exterior painting, it doesn't usually rain much in May. Of course this summer has been exceptional in that sense...
"Saavat tehdä tämän päivän talot juuri niin kuin haluavat, mutta minun talo on tehty kuusikymmentä vuotta sitten ja semmonen aika näkyy talossa ja ihmisessä. Kiitos mutta ei kiitos." - Tuomas Kyrö: Mielensäpahoittaja
Avatar
omenatalo
Uusi jäsen
Viestit: 7
Liittynyt: La Elo 18, 2012 8:49
Paikkakunta: Espoo

Re: Ikkunamaali - himmeä, puoli vai kiiltävä?

Viesti Kirjoittaja omenatalo »

PetteriKivimäki kirjoitti:There`s a messy word in finnish called öljymaali which - depending on who`s speaking - may can mean the linceed oil paint or the alkyd strenghtened pine-oil or something other based alkyd oil paint. ... Painting with alkyd gives a hard surfaced coat. Harder than the surface, and that`s the very common problem seen often.
Yep, when I ask for ölyjmaali at the hardware shop I get either blank looks or sympathetic laughter. Good to know Finns think it's a messy word too. :-)
Kuvaja kirjoitti:It`s a good thing you have the patience to paint with thin layers. I`we seen windows painted with thik layer of linceed oil. After a one year time, paint peeled of like a rubbey strip. So patience...
I find painting quite relaxing so if it takes longer, that's just fine with me. viini
Laurakaisa kirjoitti:It is still ok to paint during daytime, but rain is not good so you should check the weather forecast and try to make sure it won't rain 1-3 days after painting. I should paint our renovated front door before the winter comes and I'm going to do it tomorrow, because it shouldn't rain before Thursday. Of course you never know 100% sure... That's why spring, especially May, is really the best month to do exterior painting, it doesn't usually rain much in May. Of course this summer has been exceptional in that sense...
Did you get your door painted? The weather has been terrible here in Espoo this week. I guess I might have left it too late this year. The weather is changing into autumn so quickly now. Maybe I'll focus on getting the inner frames sorted out first and leave the outside faces to next spring. By the way, if you have a iPhone or Android phone the Finnish Meteorological Institute make a really great weather app. It's really well designed, easy to use, with hourly and 10 day forecasts, and all from the official source. Much better than the alternatives even if Finnish weather is notoriously hard to predict.

Back on topic ... do I have this right? The facade boards and decorative boards are made from untreated wood and you rely on the oil in the paint to be absorbed into the wood to help protect it from moisture and the elements. If I replace one of the wide boards that surround the windows, should I do anything to treat and protect the side that faces in against the house facade boards?
Laurakaisa
Jäsen
Jäsen
Viestit: 1241
Liittynyt: Ma Huhti 05, 2010 21:28
Paikkakunta: Mikkeli
Kotisivu: http://laurakaisatalo.blogspot.com

Re: Ikkunamaali - himmeä, puoli vai kiiltävä?

Viesti Kirjoittaja Laurakaisa »

I finally got the door painted second time yesterday, thanks to my Mom who came to babysit... but I really think it might be better to leave the windows for the next year, it is much more relaxing to paint in May when you have weeks without hardly any rain. My door probably needs one more layer of paint since I tend to paint even too thin layers, but I'm going to do it next year as well - checking weather forecasts every ten minutes is too much stress. Thanks for the tip, I haven't heard of that service!

Did I understood you right - should you paint the "backside" of the board? I'm not sure, but at least we painted both sides of the boards when we made the roof in the beginning of summer and we had to change...well, I have no idea what is 'räystäslaudat' in English, but I mean those white boards at the end of eaves which you can see in the picture. But you can actually see both sides of those boards if you stand close to the walls of the house... So, I guess I don't know :?

Kuva
"Saavat tehdä tämän päivän talot juuri niin kuin haluavat, mutta minun talo on tehty kuusikymmentä vuotta sitten ja semmonen aika näkyy talossa ja ihmisessä. Kiitos mutta ei kiitos." - Tuomas Kyrö: Mielensäpahoittaja
Avatar
omenatalo
Uusi jäsen
Viestit: 7
Liittynyt: La Elo 18, 2012 8:49
Paikkakunta: Espoo

Re: Ikkunamaali - himmeä, puoli vai kiiltävä?

Viesti Kirjoittaja omenatalo »

Räystäslaudat is "barge boards" in English. New word for me in both languages. :-)
Vastaa Viestiin